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Post by bussit on Jan 5, 2024 13:11:11 GMT -7
The polls are saying that Biden will loose to Trump. That's the reason to run someone other than him. I don't think it needs to be articulated more than that. Big orange monster is coming!
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Post by danimal on Jan 5, 2024 14:02:39 GMT -7
The polls said Trump would lose to Hillary.
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Post by danimal on Jan 5, 2024 14:14:26 GMT -7
"Biden has done a bad job and shouldn't be re elected"
Explain how and why.
"I don't know that's just what everyone else is saying so it must be true"
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2024
Jan 5, 2024 14:36:30 GMT -7
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Post by deadphishbiscuits on Jan 5, 2024 14:36:30 GMT -7
Couldn't tell ya if he's done bad or good
He's also still working and cleaning up past 4 years
I'd like to see age and term limits imposed to all elected officials
If ya can't run to be president til 35, shouldn't be able to run to be president if you're over 65
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Post by bussit on Jan 5, 2024 14:37:36 GMT -7
"Biden has done a bad job and shouldn't be re elected" Explain how and why. "I don't know that's just what everyone else is saying so it must be true" 1. He let the cares act expire on his watch. This hurt a lot of people and was politically stupid 2. He promised to raise the minimum wage, had the means to do it then balked. It was a lie the whole time. This pissed off a lot of people 3. He is currently supporting a genocide There are three reasons. There are many more
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Post by Don Swifty on Jan 5, 2024 14:41:44 GMT -7
Meh. Pollsters have been increasingly wrong. They predicted a Clinton win. They predicted a big red wave in '22. In an age where most everyone has a cellphone polling neglects the opinions of those without a landline. Polls aren't the predictors they once were.
Curious. Who would you suggest instead of Biden that a) is currently running in '24 and not waiting until '28, and b) also is shown in reliable and current polls to be polling ahead of Trump?
If you're going to use polling to judge electability, I don't see why Williamson should be expected to beat Trump if she can't even beat Biden in the polls. fivethirtyeight today has Biden at 71.4%, Williamson at 6.1%, and Phillips at 2.9%. Blaming lack of media coverage, the Dem party, or anything else is irrelevant because it's all hypothetical - Williamson could beat Biden IF the media gave her more attention, IF the Dem party didn't cancel primaries in state X, IF if if... If you point to the real polling numbers showing Biden losing to Trump than you'd have to use the same standard and use the real polling numbers which show Biden trouncing Williams and Phillips.
You go with your best chance, and Williamson/Phillips/West ain't the best chance the Dems have to beat Trump. The Newsom and Whtimer level of candidates might be beating Trump in current polls (I have no idea if pollsters are even asking about a potential Trump v Newsom/Whitmer/et. al. at this point) but have made it clear they're not running in '24 so whether they (could) poll better than Trump doesn't matter. So who meets the criteria of running in '24 with current polling that shows them beating Trump?
The only way Biden isn't the nominee (barring extreme sickness or death) is if he voluntarily steps down sometime between now and the primaries (at best) or before the convention - pretty unlikely or he would have done so by now for the good of the party to give others a shot. Anything else at this point is just angst and hand wringing and complaining based on purely hypothetical matchups. You play the cards you're dealt, not the cards you think you should've been dealt.
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2024
Jan 5, 2024 14:52:28 GMT -7
Post by Don Swifty on Jan 5, 2024 14:52:28 GMT -7
I think I'd rather take a chance on a candidate who didn't accomplish his promise to raise the minimum wage than one who is promising to be an authoritarian dictator out for revenge on his perceived enemies and promising to use the DOJ and his military to do so with the hopes that they too don't accomplish all of their promises.
Politicians breaking campaign promises isn't at all newsworthy because it's become an institution where no candidate who becomes an office holder is immune. Expecting a perfect record on fulfilling campaign promises is unrealistic.
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2024
Jan 5, 2024 14:55:44 GMT -7
Post by flyinghellphish on Jan 5, 2024 14:55:44 GMT -7
I'm super worried about another Trump presidency but I'm going to refuse to do the single thing I can do to help stop it because Biden didn't get me a puppy for Xmas. Sounds like every spineless so called moderate Republican in congress. hahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
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2024
Jan 5, 2024 14:56:11 GMT -7
Post by Don Swifty on Jan 5, 2024 14:56:11 GMT -7
All that said, America probably has the worst choices in this election in modern history. I'd hope Giant Douche loses and Shit Sandwich is served with a lot of condiments to make it go down easier.
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2024
Jan 5, 2024 15:01:31 GMT -7
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Post by danimal on Jan 5, 2024 15:01:31 GMT -7
"Biden has done a bad job and shouldn't be re elected" Explain how and why. "I don't know that's just what everyone else is saying so it must be true" 1. He let the cares act expire on his watch. This hurt a lot of people and was politically stupid 2. He promised to raise the minimum wage, had the means to do it then balked. It was a lie the whole time. This pissed off a lot of people 3. He is currently supporting a genocide There are three reasons. There are many more Tha cares act was pandemic legislation. The pandemic is over and your opinion on the political intelligence of it is pretty subjective. If by "means to do it" do you mean had a bill on his desk ready to sign? Because the the president doesn't control what legislation gets passed. Providing defense resources to US allies who are under threat shouldn't really be up for debate. Biden is not in charge of Israeli military operations and is exercising all the diplomatic leverage he can to encourage restraint and create a path for peace and reconstruction.
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Post by flyinghellphish on Jan 5, 2024 15:09:54 GMT -7
america really wanted that puppy.
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2024
Jan 5, 2024 15:11:57 GMT -7
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Post by danimal on Jan 5, 2024 15:11:57 GMT -7
The cares act thing is unfortunate, but honestly I don't think it was politically stupid I think it was politically not an option.
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Post by danimal on Jan 5, 2024 15:15:17 GMT -7
Minimum wage going up in 22 states this year.
I just feel like the people who are mad at Biden are mad about things that he doesn't have control over and they aren't paying attention to all the things his administration is doing good on. The chips acts is doing good shit and creating good jobs all over the place. Meanwhile the news just continues to tell us the sky is falling because that's what gets the clicks.
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Post by bussit on Jan 5, 2024 15:46:52 GMT -7
1. He let the cares act expire on his watch. This hurt a lot of people and was politically stupid 2. He promised to raise the minimum wage, had the means to do it then balked. It was a lie the whole time. This pissed off a lot of people 3. He is currently supporting a genocide There are three reasons. There are many more Tha cares act was pandemic legislation. The pandemic is over and your opinion on the political intelligence of it is pretty subjective. If by "means to do it" do you mean had a bill on his desk ready to sign? Because the the president doesn't control what legislation gets passed. Providing defense resources to US allies who are under threat shouldn't really be up for debate. Biden is not in charge of Israeli military operations and is exercising all the diplomatic leverage he can to encourage restraint and create a path for peace and reconstruction. He could have extended the care act again or moved to make parts of it permanent. He chose to let it expire as if everyone was going to be fine. Having something taken away hurts worse than not getting something in he first place. This negatively affected people's lives in a way that did not go unnoticed. They had the votes to raise the minimum wage, all it would have taken was to put in a friendly parliamentarian just like the republicans did when they were in power and Kamala Harris would have been able to make the final decision and pass it, boom. They CHOSE not to do that in spite of it being a major campaign promise. That's some bullshit. Biden never wanted it. And you can chose or not chose to call what's going on in Gaza right now a genocide but 92% of the people being killed are innocent civilians. 11,000 children have been killed. It's insane.
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2024
Jan 5, 2024 15:57:59 GMT -7
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Post by danimal on Jan 5, 2024 15:57:59 GMT -7
Not really arguing about the cares act but the fact remains that it was pandemic legislation and and bending the rules to keep it around sets a a bad precedent. Biden proposed the increase. Being able to change the voting rules wasn't an option from the way I understand it. Calling it a genocide or not doesn't change the fact the Israeli troops are not under orders from Biden.
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2024
Jan 5, 2024 15:59:05 GMT -7
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Post by danimal on Jan 5, 2024 15:59:05 GMT -7
You keep saying he let all things things happen like he proposed them in bad faith and I just don't believe that.
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2024
Jan 5, 2024 16:08:10 GMT -7
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ashell likes this
Post by danimal on Jan 5, 2024 16:08:10 GMT -7
We should all try to be more involved in local politics. You can ask why Biden didn't raise the minimum wage but with it making a big jump in all of these states, the question should be why not mine?
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Post by Don Swifty on Jan 5, 2024 16:14:19 GMT -7
The polls are saying that Biden will loose to Trump. That's the reason to run someone other than him. I don't think it needs to be articulated more than that. Big orange monster is coming! Name at least one specific "someone" other than Biden where polls (again, specific polls) are saying "someone" will beat Trump and that has already announced they are running in '24 or have a willingness to enter this years race at such a late date. Just because polls are showing that Biden is loosing to Trump doesn't mean that candidate "someone" will therefore beat Trump or even poll better against Trump than Biden is. You put up your best chance to win even if polls say that best chance looks like they'll lose at this point in time. If you can show me polling that shows either West/Williamson/Phillips or anyone else currently/potentially (even at this late date) running for the Dem nomination beating Trump I will share in your displeasure, but I'm not going to get all upset about polling showing a hypothetical unnamed generic "someone" who's not even running beating Trump since that "someone" isn't even running. It's a shame that Biden didn't announce he was stepping down to make room for the next generation of Dem leadership and instead announced he was running for reelection, but that's the reality American voters are going to have to accept. Like a lot of people, I'd of rather him step down and see a healthy competition this Spring among better candidates than what we have now, but that's not what happened. People will either vote in their own best interest with hopes for a better Dem candidate in '28, they'll vote for Trump or another candidate, or they won't bother voting at all. But like it or not (I don't like it), barring something major, Biden's the candidate. The "anybody but Biden for the Dem nominee" ship left the dock the day he announced.
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Post by Filo on Jan 5, 2024 16:34:08 GMT -7
I see we are still living that fantasy a Dem/candidate not named Biden has a shot at beating Trump. Let it go. Breathe in the stench and madness of the next four years and then we all move on to whatever is next. YOLO!
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2024
Jan 5, 2024 16:41:14 GMT -7
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Post by EddieBlake on Jan 5, 2024 16:41:14 GMT -7
Oh boy, what a pitch!
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