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2024
Sept 28, 2023 9:02:21 GMT -7
Post by Don Swifty on Sept 28, 2023 9:02:21 GMT -7
The problem is that in addition to all the people who say they will never vote for a Republican (or a Democrat) there are a whole lot of people who don't see it that way and don't look at Trump, or the GOP in general, the same way most of us do. Maybe they see both as being the equally evil choice because they're not as partisan or passionate about core Democrat principles as they are about the issues the GOP emphasizes? Maybe they don't follow the issues and fact check all that much? Maybe they just don't care, thinking 'they're all the same.' A lot of people who aren't MAGA partisans can deal with Trump's bluster and like the idea of a President who projects strength. Perceptions outweigh facts, and no matter the facts, Biden is perceived as old and a bit out of it while Trump/GOP superior marketing allows him to get a pass on those things.
The Dems best not assume all of Trump's crimes guarantee he can't win or that a different GOP candidate can't do the same. Most of us will vote for whoever the Dem is to prevent the GOP from winning but I wouldn't assume that everyone who isn't MAGA will do the same. They might not like Trump or DeSantis, but that doesn't mean they'll like Biden any more. In 2020 Biden was a good placeholder but now he's a weak candidate and if he loses it'll be nobody's fault but his (for not stepping aside after 'saving the Republic' and riding off into the sunset to be judged favorably by history) and the Dem party for not taking the GOP threat seriously and listening to the public who say 'give us someone we can feel enthusiastic about, please.' Fair/logical or not, Biden's accomplishments matter less than perceptions of him and the state of the country. They need a 2024 version of B. Clinton or Obama instead of an octogenarian to deliver the message.
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Post by Don Swifty on Sept 28, 2023 9:18:58 GMT -7
It would be nice if we could have a debate amongst the democratic candidates for president but the dnc is refusing to hold any debates, and Joe Biden seems perfectly happy not to participate. Why? Because muthafuck democracy Right now it's just Williamson and Cornell West running for the Democratic nomination, correct? I think the DNC doesn't want any fellow Dems poking at Joe and weakening him for the general election, so no debates. They remember what happened when incumbent Carter got challenged in the primaries. Unless a bigger name who has a decent chance (establishment, longer history with the party) jumps in it will be a coronation. Just like it was in 2020 in the GOP. Policies aside, Williamson and West are extreme longshots since Dems (party and voters) favor loyal, established party candidates more than the GOP who will get behind an outsider like Trump if that's where the votes are to win. If Bernie's not going to run they need a successful Governor or failing that a popular Senator/Rep. I don't think an outsider activist type like Williamson or West will sell to the Dem base and might just serve to weaken Biden as the DNC fears. But I'm not a loyal Dem, just a strong anti-GOP type voter, so I'm not surprised the DNC is doing what's best for their party as opposed to paying attention to the issues that matter to me. It's gonna get worse once they start really focusing on Biden. I'm already seeing talking points saying he's hiding in the basement. If the Dems can't do a competent job defining Joe, the GOP will be glad to. They're gonna make it so that the average American would think twice about giving Joe the remote for the TV. |
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2024
Sept 28, 2023 10:36:11 GMT -7
Post by ashell on Sept 28, 2023 10:36:11 GMT -7
It would be nice if we could have a debate amongst the democratic candidates for president but the dnc is refusing to hold any debates, and Joe Biden seems perfectly happy not to participate. Why? Because muthafuck democracy Right now it's just Williamson and Cornell West running for the Democratic nomination, correct? Robert F. Kennedy is on the list too. Although I think the only thing going for him (at least according to the press) is that Clapton played a benefit for/with him and raised a good amount. |
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2024
Sept 28, 2023 10:47:47 GMT -7
via mobile
Post by ancientchad on Sept 28, 2023 10:47:47 GMT -7
Funny how the chest thumping, life-long "Independents" suddenly decide to become Democrats.
You wanna be an Independent? Rock on. Pitch your ideas, form your own party.
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Post by higs on Sept 28, 2023 10:48:20 GMT -7
I've done a lot of reading. I've watched videos, tyt, etc. I'm having a hard time understanding why the dnc would suppress other candidates. I'm not suggesting it isn't happening. I just can't wrap my head around what the motivation would be given Biden's current numbers. The premise has a conspiracy theory tone to it. Why wouldn't the dnc want an Andy Beshear or a Josh Shapiro running in the primaries? Anyone younger than Biden has to have a pretty good shot against Trump.
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2024
Sept 28, 2023 10:52:21 GMT -7
via mobile
Post by higs on Sept 28, 2023 10:52:21 GMT -7
Funny how the chest thumping, life-long "Independents" suddenly decide to become Democrats. You wanna be an Independent? Rock on. Pitch your ideas, form your own party. Those are the guys I was refering to in the other thread. They voted for Biden, but probably couldn't handle the thought of a woman and voted for Trump over Hillary. I don't get it. |
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Post by bussit on Sept 28, 2023 11:57:23 GMT -7
If Joe drops out for some reason, the dnc will absolutely try and push a more establishment candidate. They would rather have trump than a progressive that actually wants to help the american
people. In the meantime, the dnc will probably try and hide Biden from as many debates as possible. What's joe biden going to run on anyway?
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Post by Don Swifty on Sept 28, 2023 12:24:33 GMT -7
The DNC seems to be all about establishment, length of time in the party, and loyalty to the party whereas everyone watched the GOP give all that up in 2016 when Jeb! went over like a lead balloon and it was obvious they might have a chance at beating Clinton with MAGA. Once it was obvious that one of their own wasn't going to win the nomination the overwhelming majority of establishment GOP jumped on the Trump train to join all those 'never voted before' who make up the Trump base. The Dems don't seem to be as flexible, willing, or even interested in going with the prevailing winds if it means they have a better chance of winning. They took active steps to deny Bernie because they believed Hilary paid her dues and deserved it. Obviously they prefer supporting a weak incumbent over encouraging a challenge, or even debate.
I can see why certain people prefer the GOP. They want to win and they'll do what it takes to do so. People like winners and people with a strong desire to win. The Dems seem to be a lot more elitist, establishment, and unwilling to listen to popular opinion. They bust on the GOP for giving blind fealty to Trump when they're just as guilty of being loyal lapdogs.
Whatever. I'm not a big D Democrat, never registered as a Dem, so I figure they're entitled to run their party however they like. I'm more the 'anybody but a Republican' type and I think they cater more to their loyal base then they do people like myself. Otherwise we'd see them encouraging more progressives.
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Post by bear on Sept 29, 2023 9:07:37 GMT -7
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Post by bear on Sept 29, 2023 9:17:08 GMT -7
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2024
Sept 29, 2023 9:32:16 GMT -7
higs likes this
Post by Don Swifty on Sept 29, 2023 9:32:16 GMT -7
 Balloons! |
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Post by higs on Sept 29, 2023 13:00:14 GMT -7
I heard this morning that the gop holdouts in the house who are blocking any continuing resolutions only represent 2% of US voters.
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Post by salmon401 on Sept 30, 2023 23:23:27 GMT -7
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Post by salmon401 on Sept 30, 2023 23:23:42 GMT -7
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2024
Oct 4, 2023 14:00:44 GMT -7
via mobile
higs likes this
Post by bear on Oct 4, 2023 14:00:44 GMT -7
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2024
Oct 24, 2023 14:42:29 GMT -7
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ferd likes this
Post by higs on Oct 24, 2023 14:42:29 GMT -7
It might be in the Dems strategic interest to go ahead and vote across the aisle to get a speaker in place.
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2024
Oct 24, 2023 20:26:49 GMT -7
Post by Don Swifty on Oct 24, 2023 20:26:49 GMT -7
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Post by hokiejoe on Oct 25, 2023 5:10:43 GMT -7
It might be in the Dems strategic interest to go ahead and vote across the aisle get a speaker in place. This is a pretty decent read on why it might not be a good idea and I agree with her. R's have shown absolutely no ability to not quickly put a knife in the back of anyone trying to cooperate with them. www.yahoo.com/news/calmes-lets-count-reasons-democrats-220217348.html |
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2024
Oct 25, 2023 5:41:07 GMT -7
higs likes this
Post by Don Swifty on Oct 25, 2023 5:41:07 GMT -7
It might be in the Dems strategic interest to go ahead and vote across the aisle to get a speaker in place. Looks like the GOP doesn't want any Dem votes to get them a Speaker so (for now at least in this fluid situation) they won't even bring a nominee for vote to the entire floor unless they know they can get the 217 on their own and the Dems wouldn't even have an opportunity to help them get out of their paper bag. |
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Post by higs on Oct 25, 2023 6:02:58 GMT -7
I guess I was being a little idealistic in thinking that unprecedented times might require unprecedented responses.
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