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Post by ancientchad on Nov 23, 2023 15:52:11 GMT -7
I'm pretty sure Biden didn't campaign on changing Fed Law to legalize weed, but he did campaign on battling climate change, which he has done more than all of his predecessors combined, and he also tried mightily to forgive student loans, which he was able to do but not as much as he would have liked to. Please list the other "hot button" young progressive issues he so miserably failed you.
I know infrastructure, jobs and wage increases aren't very sexy, but I'm curious why people under 35 think he's such a disaster, aside from just being old.
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Post by ancientchad on Nov 23, 2023 15:59:11 GMT -7
This is "Holiday Political Conversation with your Uncle" portion of our programming.
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Post by flyinghellphish on Nov 23, 2023 16:18:30 GMT -7
Your cool uncle
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Post by deadphishbiscuits on Nov 23, 2023 17:04:24 GMT -7
Yo Unk, wanna hit this?
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Post by Don Swifty on Nov 23, 2023 17:48:34 GMT -7
I don't think it matters so much why people under 35 think Biden's such a disaster. What matters (or what should matter more to the Dem Party) is that regardless of what Biden's done or not done, or what the other guy is like, a lot of the under 35 crowd do think he's a disaster. Really doesn't matter if they're right or wrong or what anyone thinks they don't understand or appreciate - all of which is completely subjective anyway.
It's like a salesman lamenting that a potential buyer doesn't like the car they're trying to sell instead of finding out what kind of car and features the buyer actually wants. The salesman has to figure what they want more; a commission for selling a car or to keep trying to sell a car the buyer doesn't really like? If a tween wants tickets to see Taylor Swift at The Garden for her birthday telling her you'll get her tickets to see Tiffany and Debbie Gibson at the County Fair ain't gonna cut it.
The GOP has understood this since at least '16, have given up on trying to sell their voters on what they want them to like, and instead are giving them what it is they say they want. They're putting on a minimal show of impartiality by having debates, but no matter what they might think of Trump, they're not pushing DeSantis or any of the rest on their voters. I don't know if it's that the GOP are better at listening to what their voters want than the Dems are, or if their voters are more homogenous which makes it easier for the party to give the most voters what they want. Winning is clearly their only goal.
Can you pass the stuffing? Thanks.
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Post by Don Swifty on Nov 23, 2023 18:13:05 GMT -7
My mother in law is into politics. Whenever Trump came up in the news or conversation she expressed her dislike. Called him payaso - clown. Was glad when Biden won. She's also very anti-Socialist. Socialism down here has a different connotation than it does in Europe, or even the US.
No surprise that during the recent election she was for Milei and against Massa, the socialist. It was still kind of a lesser of two evils choice for her, but was happy that Milei won and relieved that Massa lost.
I read something earlier today about Trump coming down to Argentina to see Milei. I have no idea if he will or if it's just talk, but I mentioned his visit and that it would be a meeting of the clowns, the Trumpistas. She didn't want to believe that Milei has praised Trump, and Trump Milei, and that Milei is said to be the Argentine version of Trump and his supporters are the Argentine version of Trumpistas, how they're all cut from the same cloth, etc.. But she follows politics and the news close enough to have to be aware of the ideological connection and comparisons.
I'm gonna try and look at all of this as another test on keeping my fucking mouth shut, but it's gonna be hard at times.
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2024
Nov 23, 2023 18:29:07 GMT -7
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ashell likes this
Post by ancientchad on Nov 23, 2023 18:29:07 GMT -7
Let me clarify that I would like Biden to step aside. That being said, I think he's been a good President.
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Post by Filo on Nov 23, 2023 19:08:07 GMT -7
I am still in the same train of thought and don’t see it changing. That would be Biden stepping aside is guaranteeing Trump returns to office, just as it would have been in 2020 if Biden didn’t step up and run. I guess the bright side is if he woulda won then we would have been nearing the end of Trump instead of the prospect of another 4 years. The point is Biden still poses the best shot at beating Trump and whatever happens ‘28 will be a new beginning for both parties. Trump will be done. The Democrats have exhausted all their literal old guard and will have no choice but to move forward. 🇺🇸
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Post by saulgoodman on Nov 24, 2023 10:51:07 GMT -7
Pretty much agree with what Filo said.
Swifty's car/concert analogy makes sense - give the voter what s/he wants, not what DNC thinks s/he needs, but the young voter isn't the only driver of the car, though s/he may (or may not) be the only one holding up the car's purchase. But, if s/he gets the car s/he wants, maybe the other drivers are no longer interested in buying. Seems like this is the very process of compromise we underwent in 2020. Can Biden win the general? It's the Same question as in 2020. If there's any difference, seems to be whether Biden should be given the benefit of incumbent 'protection' as is the political custom. Maybe not. Certainly, the fear is weakening his campaign status, ala T Kennedy & Carter. I dunno: 1980 was a long time ago. The same dynamics may no longer be operative. But, thinking strategically: it'd be 1 thing if Witmer or Newsom or Bernie and Mayor Pete or even Hillary were running, but if that's gonna happen, if that should happen, it's gotta happen really, really soon! DNC sponsored debates involving Biden alongside Kennedy, Williamson and the uncharismatic minnesotan whose name i can't even remember aren't going to help those candidates emerge but would spotlight the Biden qualities for which many voters don't care while Trump need not endure similar scrutiny (& yeah, GOP probably is a more homogeneous voter base). This question was posed in 2020 - i.e. if not Biden, who? And as unsatisfying as the answer was (to wit, I don't know, but none of these other identifiable folks can gain consensus), it appears to be the answer today too.
Aw, but listen to me . . . I'm rambling again. Pass the sioux city sasparilla.
TLDR edit: a year is a long time in politics; it may prove a positive omen that Biden trails Trump in the battleground states as of now, which doesn't mean it doesn't terrify me, but it's even harder to see how him or Harris stepping aside and endorsing candidate X will strengthen the odds of beating Trump (& forgive my naivete if i am misguided in believing that the primary instant goal).
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2024
Nov 24, 2023 11:06:15 GMT -7
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Post by bussit on Nov 24, 2023 11:06:15 GMT -7
Biden didn't fight for things that people really want, like at all. It upset people that expected more. Also his age is showing and it's not good. I do not think he is the most electable democratic candidate
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2024
Nov 24, 2023 11:55:20 GMT -7
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Post by ancientchad on Nov 24, 2023 11:55:20 GMT -7
As I said...
"Please list the other "hot button" young progressive issues he so miserably failed you."
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2024
Nov 24, 2023 11:57:27 GMT -7
Post by Don Swifty on Nov 24, 2023 11:57:27 GMT -7
I originally wrote more but edited it out, that being that it's on the Dem party to figure out their path to victory. The young may not be enthused with Biden, but for all I know party strategy is to focus on older demographics because they're shown reliably to vote more. I'm not a Dem, I have no idea what their strategy is, whether it makes sense or not, and whether or not they'll win with their strategy. Lot of Monday morning quarterbacking if he loses. But it's their party and obviously they can run it as they like. I also get the strategy of not encouraging challengers who will have to point out the incumbent's weakness in order to succeed which could ultimately (like in '80) damage their candidate in the general.
From what I can tell (and guess about) a lot of people looked at Biden in '20 (at least when he got to S. Carolina) as the guy who could beat Trump (though I personally think Bernie could've as well) but also that he was a placeholder, a bridge between the old to the new. And perhaps more importantly that he knew he was a placeholder. Had a year ago he announced that he was going to be "one and done" he'd have been praised for beating Trump and stepping aside to give a new generation of leaders ample time to debate the best way forward and plot a direction for the future of the party and their vision for the nation. Now that'll be postponed until the day after Election Day. I wouldn't be surprised if breaking that unstated but implied promise is the source of much of the disappointment and lack of enthusiasm. Maybe he's less interested in his legacy than staying in power?
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2024
Nov 24, 2023 12:05:44 GMT -7
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Post by ancientchad on Nov 24, 2023 12:05:44 GMT -7
^ I had hoped he was gonna come in and get us out of the mess Trump got us in, passed some amazing legislation (he did) then drop the mic and say I'm out. Next up.
He hasn't done that... yet. Maybe he can't because nobody has emerged or maybe he's saying "fuck you I can do this."
But regardless I'm not gonna stomp around and say "He sucks!" because he didn't do exactly as I would've liked...
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2024
Nov 24, 2023 12:29:14 GMT -7
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Post by ancientchad on Nov 24, 2023 12:29:14 GMT -7
And if young people sit this one because they are pouting, these sick twisted un-American psychos are going do everything in their power to ensure elections won't matter because they know their ideas are dead, disgusting and wrong. They know very,very soon they won't have the numbers... not even close enough to fake it. And they are fucking terrified and desperate and very dangerous.
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Post by Don Swifty on Nov 24, 2023 12:33:55 GMT -7
Biden and the rest of the party know how this works as far as challenging incumbents, leaving only the fringe who won't gain enough popular support to emerge as challengers. The only way Biden bows out from this point on is for personal, not political reasons - an unexpected major health issue. Those who realize they have a real chance are wisely (for them) waiting it out for the next one and will be loyal party soldiers this election. They don't want to be the Dem version of Ron DeSantis who could've been a viable V.P. nominee and/or '28 candidate but now looks to have killed his political future by challenging Trump.
It's a weird dynamic in that the economy is supposedly good (subjective), plenty of jobs, inflation's been tamed, no US troops fighting abroad, etc., yet a lot of people aren't happy with Joe. He should be killing it running against Trump and all his baggage. I guess things are such that people are more interested in and open to the idea of authoritarianism than they've been in a long while.
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2024
Nov 24, 2023 12:41:05 GMT -7
Post by Don Swifty on Nov 24, 2023 12:41:05 GMT -7
And if young people sit this one because they are pouting, these sick twisted un-American psychos are going do everything in their power to ensure elections won't matter because they know their ideas are dead, disgusting and wrong. They know very,very soon they won't have the numbers... not even close enough to fake it. And they are fucking terrified and desperate and very dangerous. Variations of these quote have been attributed to tons of people: In a democracy people get the leaders they deserve/The Govt. you elect is the Govt. you deserve |
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2024
Nov 24, 2023 18:46:28 GMT -7
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Post by bussit on Nov 24, 2023 18:46:28 GMT -7
I'm done pointing out where Biden has disappointed me personally but I really don't think that is the issue anymore. Either he's electable or not. I too feel the creeping fascism. Just for God's sake can we run someone that can win
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Post by ancientchad on Dec 3, 2023 19:30:45 GMT -7
But... but... he's old!  |
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2024
Dec 4, 2023 18:30:53 GMT -7
higs likes this
Post by Don Swifty on Dec 4, 2023 18:30:53 GMT -7
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Post by bussit on Dec 5, 2023 9:36:19 GMT -7
Yep, the end of democracy is upon us
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