2024

According to who?

I know a lot of young, would be voters would love that shit.  They're never going to reel in people who think Kamala is communist because Fox said so.

They have to stop trying to appeal to voters who are simply not going to vote for them and TRY to win some of these voters you say don't exist.

Running on "they might do this" isn't strong. 

So they're aiming for a much older demographic who are probably not going to for them instead of getting the younger, future of the party while also saying "fuck you" to them.

Bold strategy! Hard to see why the democrats lose so much. Gotta keep after those 80 year olds who basically never vote blue!

The condescending tone doesn't help win folks over either, Hokie. You really didn't answer my question. That's why people are mad, you can't keep this tone and this attitude and expect young people to be happy with it. The party is actively losing young voters because of this shit. Not to mention telling all potential Palestinian voters to eat shit too. 

I literally don't know how to answer differently that they need BOTH demographics to win elections. Just winning over the people who think and have priorities that matter to you isn't cutting it. Nobody is saying fuck you to anybody. For every person who really, really wants student loans forgiven there is an often older potential democrat viscerally opposed to that. It's a difficult task to balance out what you can/want to do vs. who you think will support you. The game is winning elections and that means pleasing a broader spectrum than just you. I also didn't try to be condescending to you at all, I just don't know how to express this differently. 

As m7ch as I stand to gain from loan forgiveness, I think the focus and need is changing how the loans are offered, distributed and managed from there. Limits on the loans, capping the rates, maybe some kind of incentives for passing classes or completing programs? It would take work to develop something that isn't overly clunky or complicated but the system needs fixed first, then (or concurrently) we can explore sensible relief for borrowers that the system failed and placed into unnecessary debt that doesn't match the value of the education recieved and it's translation to the job market. Im not sure i support full on forgiveness, borrowers have to accept some accountability but the level the exisiting system exploited borrowers should be quantified somehow and maybe some sort of reduction could be applied along with a more rational financing rate moving forward for what remains.

^that is the difference between a handout (or what would be perceived as such) and a system fix that may have broader support.

Wait, you just decided this discussion is over with a couple back and forths?

I shared a rational alternative to student loan forgiveness, which has proven to be a nonviable option.

Am I missing something? How do you see student loan forgiveness outright as a legal and practicable option, especially one that would garner broader support outside of those in debt themselves? How do recommend outright student loan forgiveness happen?

It's not that it's off the table from the party, it has been shot down in every way and unfortunately the efforts took away from opportunities to change the student loan system altogether.

What it boils down to is people throwing tantrums because they’re not getting their way. This is why this conversation is exhausting. There’s a bigger picture! It’s not just you!

If out of everything that is at stake, the main point is student loan forgiveness and that it hasn’t happened….. wtf.

I think Treetops point about restructuring HOW loans are set up is valid.

Also, I don’t know how else to explain it to people but if those things are important to you, the last person who will make it happen is Trump. And threatening to not vote is dumb as fuck.

that'll be $1,200

Kaiser gave me foot powder for my armpit. It didn't work and I got a bill for $450. When I picked it up the pharmacy asked me how I was going to use it? Like I made that decision?   Found a topical at CVS for a few dollars that my pharmacist buddy recommended and it seems to be working.