What are you thinking...right now?(Ochenta y dos)

lol I agree with you, I just think the irony is funny.

first week on the internet? everyone is an asshole online, when they can hide behind their keyboards. just go through any comment section online and you're guaranteed to find negative remarks. 

and respectful conversation can only happen when all parties agree to that, which is next to impossible online. you could have a range of outcomes from "i totally agree" to "fuck you idiot!", so its hard to have actual discourse on polarizing topics. or just be prepared to deal with the range of outcomes possible when talking about sensitive subject matter. 

I stayed out of this particular WAYTN thread since the early pages. Notice it got ripcorded. Saw in the new WAYTN thread a mention of the ripcording. Wasn't going to go in here to see why, but curiosity got the better of me. Now I understand why there was no dedicated thread to the big global news that has been happening - that shit was processed in this thread.

Once all of this shit started (not the shit in this thread, the actual shit) I told myself not to believe much of anything I read or see. Not for motives of denial that this side did this, or that side didn't do that, but because of the whole 'fog of war' thing when it comes to getting factual information. In 2023 that dove-tails with all of the inevitable mis and disinformation that's out there. Atrocities were committed. More atrocities followed. When it comes to Israel/Palestine, or more accurately, Israelis and Palestinians, atrocities have been going on for a long ass time.

Seems to me a lot of this kind of shit always comes as a surprise to some and not at all a surprise to others. There's a natural inclination for people to look at these types of events as standalone events as opposed to being a small (but louder) part of the entire situation. My cousin died in the 9-11 attacks, but instead of reacting to just that event and the larger events of that tragic day I put myself in the shoes of those most involved in these conflicts and asked "why?" (which made me very unpopular with some in my family.) A lot of people don't want to look at what causes someone to do what they do, I think because it's easier to paint them as heinous, inhuman monsters whose only motive is irrational hate and a desire to kill that which they hate. My immediate thought was that hate is not an inherent human trait, it's a taught and learned trait. It's rational to think that an individual is mentally off, sick, filled with irrational hate, etc., but it's not rational to believe that an entire race or nation of people are inherently hate filled. Maybe those involved were sick and tired of imperialism and having US military bases in their front and back yard and to reverse the situation and ask how Americans would feel if they had Saudi, Iranian, Iraqi, et. al. military bases in their front and back yards so that those countries industries could exploit American land for oil/minerals while also exploiting American workers. But at the time you'd be accused of sympathizing with the 'enemy' if you suggested that to many people. There's a lot to be said for walking a mile in someone's shoes before outright condemning them.

Bear posted a video recently where a comic is stressing over what statement he should post to Instagram because as a comic it's expected of him, but judging by statements of support/condemnation made by other public figures he's damned no matter what he says. There're the acts themselves, and there's the long history that has lead to all of this continuing shit. You can't (at least I can't) isolate any one act and use that as a basis to form my opinion on who're the "good guys" and who're the "bad guys."

Seems to me that the governments/powerful people on both sides have been filled with assholes for as long as these conflicts have been going on. The powerful create a belief system that they insist the "common" people follow that always seems to benefit those in charge who create the myths and control the people by promising them a grand and wonderful afterlife as long as they are obedient now and accept their (shitty) lot in life. And for reasons that I'm sure benefit those powerful myth creators part of the religion (again, in this particular case) is to demonize the non-believers on the other side, because they don't go for what's in the Book, 'n that makes 'em bad, so verily they must choppeth'd up and stompeth'd down.... I get that religion can offer positive aspects, but realistically those aspects can be conveyed in a way that doesn't involve having to believe in certain myths and most certainly not in other myths. Religion can teach morals, but ya don't need religion to be a moral person. I also get that there are other benefits people find in religion, so while it's not for me and I find those benefits elsewhere, I'm happy if other people get them through they're religion. Lot of cultural aspects and things like prayer, even if they're only a placebo, actually can have positive effects because - placebo syndrome. Doesn't matter as long as one gets the desired results.

When all else fails I like to open myself to unconventional or even weird sounding solutions. Why not? For example, when Kinky Friedman was running for Gov. of Texas he had what he called the "Five Generals" solution for dealing with illegal border crossings. His idea was to set up escrow accounts for five Mexican generals that contained (can't remember the exact figures) millions of dollars and put these five generals in charge of their respective sections of the border. Every time Border Patrol nabs someone crossing the border in their zone a certain amount gets deducted from the escrow account. It sounds like an unserious suggestion, but when nothing else seems to be working and with a minute of thought it doesn't sound so crazy to use basic human greed as a motivator. I'm sure there'd be kinks (pun intended) to his plan, but I'm just referring to thinking outside of the box.

So my crazy sounding idea would be for the UN or a collection of superpowers to grant Israel a beautiful territory far from where they are now and do the same for the Palestinians. In Israel's case I'd make it an isolated island if possible. Somewhere beautiful where they can live in expectation of not being fucked with, and where anyone who fucks with them has to seriously go out of their way to do so and it wouldn't be because of an argument over contested land, but because they're hate filled assholes. Deal with them seriously. The Palestinians can more safely fit in someplace in the region - but they don't get the contested land because Israel doesn't either. If Israel makes the effort to fuck with them from their new homeland many times zones away then they're assholes and should be dealt with. If good fences make good neighbors, oceans make better ones.

What I got from these last several pages is that 99% are open to having a conversation about shit like this without making it personal - sticking to the issue instead of going straight to ad-hominem attacks, which seems to be a lame way to try and get your point across and make the person you're attacking receptive to what you're saying. Because it's the internet things are going to get misinterpreted, or maybe someone makes a point without making all of their points at once or assuming that that which is unsaid is obvious and doesn't need saying and then partially because it's the internet which allows people to be more negative than they would be in person, partially because of individual personality issues, conversation degrades real fast, imo because it seems they're more interested in conflict than conversation and want to get right to it. Instead of allowing someone an opportunity to add to their original point they go straight into conflict mode. I don't get straight jumping to thinking the worst of someone because they didn't post all of their thoughts in their first post. People here are nuanced. It's a mistake to think they're not and are simplistic with all or nothing opinions and they're not capable of having a multitude of complex opinions on a complex topic. It's ironic because while trying to label someone with uncivil childish insults as being all "this" because they're not immediately talking about all "that" it seems to me that they're the one's who are looking at things in such a zero-sum way. Glad I sat this one out and didn't get involved or say anything until it was all over.

One thing these last several pages did do is confirm for me that I made a good choice in blocking a person, more as a reminder not to respond to them than to never read their posts - though it does take that extra step to do so and many times I don't bother. I did read what they wrote in these last pages though for context and to be fair, but all it did was confirm for me that I don't want to get caught up in that kind of energy. It's not their opinions (some I agree with, some I don't - go figure) that has me not wanting to read or respond to them, it's their (again, imo) lack of civility and respect in how they respond to others. I doubt they'd behave in such a way in person because they likely know they'd eventually get decked, but the internet is ultimately a medium that allows humans to behave in such ways, spread dis and misinformation, etc., so it's no surprise it has the capability of bringing out the worst of human nature. I made an assumption that they're probably not so uncivil in person and that perhaps it's best for people to have an outlet like social media and internet chat groups like this as a way for them to blow off steam. Better to be uncivil (or be treated uncivilly) online than in person. And if it keeps them from being an asshole to peoples faces all the better. But being this is not a workplace or other involuntary forced interaction type of situation I don't have to read or respond to it. Reinforced my decision way back at the beginning of the year to want to reduce inviting that kind of negative energy into my life, and glad I did. There's enough of that shitty energy out there in the world without choosing to invite more.

I forgot to mention that once everyone was relocated the whole contested area would be turned into perhaps the world's largest solar farm.

End of the day

It's the intertronz

Who gives a shit

Who gives a fuck







Besides influencers of course

Literally everyone else got personal with me before I got personal with them. My "shitty negative energy" was defending Palestinians from weird negative shit. Greg has continually spoken about me as if he's a better person or some garbage because "I couldn't POSSIBLY understand his position", more holier than thou nonsense. Its hard to be civil with folks after they've said they're not really broken up about dead Palestinians. That's a pretty low bar.