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Post by lordkundalini on Aug 17, 2016 10:47:27 GMT -7
i can pick up a baseball bat and swing it..
should i be shocked im not a major leaguer?
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Post by lordkundalini on Aug 17, 2016 10:50:53 GMT -7
in fact you could make an argument that if you are seeking material gain, you dont have a clue..
you seek something else and the material just falls into place.
if all you have is a want, you will always be wanting
Ceremonial Magick:
The object of ceremonial magick is to stimulate the senses, to power-up the emotions, and to firmly conceptualize the purpose of the operation—which is to create a transcending experience to unite Personality with the Divine Self. To this end, rituals, symbols, clothing, colors, incenses, sound, dramatic invocations and sacraments are selected in accordance with established "correspondences" of one thing to another to transport the magician towards a mystical reality.
Carl Llewellyn Weschcke
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Post by Don Swifty on Aug 17, 2016 11:11:38 GMT -7
Perhaps. Just an observation on my part that people who were practicing magik (which is a way of exerting ones will and intent on the universe) either had the intent and will to live shitty lives they bitched about, weren't practicing correctly, or got caught up ins believing they had more powers then they'd actually possessed.
Not everyone I knew who practiced OTO magik had a shitty life, but I would have thought that something as formal as a magical incantation would've had more uniform, and successful, results
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Post by lordkundalini on Aug 17, 2016 11:21:30 GMT -7
Perhaps. Just an observation on my part that people who were practicing magik (which is a way of exerting ones will and intent on the universe) either had the intent and will to live shitty lives they bitched about, weren't practicing correctly, or got caught up ins believing they had more powers then they'd actually possessed. Not everyone I knew who practiced OTO magik had a shitty life, but I would have thought that something as formal as a magical incantation would've had more uniform, and successful, results for one your sample size may not be robust enough to be a powerful predictor statistically speaking just goes to show that assumption often leads to misunderstanding. and exactly how would you know what a success rate should be with this? expectations can cloud result analysis dont you think? and how do you know what their true intent and will was? and as said, if material gain is your goal, maybe you dont yet have it takes to use the will and intent to manifest. you are misguided and chained to the physical. to me its more about unifying material and spiritual lifes and material success is just an after affect. why seek money when you can seek power. power leads to money if used proper. did your friends claim to be able to acquire material success and failed? i went to a wrestling camp in highschool with the Peterson brothers. both Olympic medal holders. they passed around the gold medal.. pretty neat. i worked hard at that camp why didnt i go to the Olympics? in fact nobody in my camp did.. why not? but in the end, you dont know, i dont know the limitations of said system.. what its purpose is. ect i feel it hard to judge a system without knowing that.. would you disagree with that? |
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Post by Don Swifty on Aug 17, 2016 12:10:17 GMT -7
I never claimed that my observations were based on any kind of scientific study using a adequate sized sample, nor did I make any conclusion that suggested what I was saying should be taken as conclusive. All I did was offer an opinion based on my years of observation. Since I never stated it as fact, you should take my observations for what they are, personal observations. Opinion.
I don't know what their true intent was. As I said in previous posts, it's entirely possible that their intent was to have crappy jobs they complained about, live in crappy apartments, stretch out their monthly food stamp benefits to be able to only afford shit food, have drug/alcohol and relationship issues, etc.. Not what I'd use magik to manifest for myself if I believed that I could manifest my will and intent, but entirely possible that the majority of members of this lodge liked the idea of a hardship filled life filled will struggle and that was exactly their will and intent.
I haven't claimed to know anything. I haven't really said anything about anyones goals being the acquisition of material goods as a measure of succes. I've only stated what I've observed over the period of several years; that a larger than average number of OTO members I've met over the years either chose to manifest their will to live what most would consider to be below average existences, that the idea of living a modestly comfortable and happy life wasn't their will, or if living a joyful life filled more with ease than struggle was their will, then something about their will and intent wasn't being manifested through Crowleys system. Maybe it's as simple as their will was to be as fucked up of a junkie drug addict as Crowley was?
Of course since I'm making no definitive statements based on any kind of scientific study and only passing along my observations, your observations and mileage may differ. I have no problem with that if that's the case and have no need to try to disprove or discount your personal observations.
Wrestling camps don't make claims saying "practice our system and you will go to the Olympics if that is your intent and will." Crowley did claim that by practicing magik you could impose your will and intent on the universe and manifest that which you desire.
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Post by lordkundalini on Aug 17, 2016 12:35:33 GMT -7
I never claimed that my observations were based on any kind of scientific study using a adequate sized sample, nor did I make any conclusion that suggested what I was saying should be taken as conclusive. All I did was offer an opinion based on my years of observation. Since I never stated it as fact, you should take my observations for what they are, personal observations. Opinion. I don't know what their true intent was. As I said in previous posts, it's entirely possible that their intent was to have crappy jobs they complained about, live in crappy apartments, stretch out their monthly food stamp benefits to be able to only afford shit food, have drug/alcohol and relationship issues, etc.. Not what I'd use magik to manifest for myself if I believed that I could manifest my will and intent, but entirely possible that the majority of members of this lodge liked the idea of a hardship filled life filled will struggle and that was exactly their will and intent. I haven't claimed to know anything. I haven't really said anything about anyones goals being the acquisition of material goods as a measure of succes. I've only stated what I've observed over the period of several years; that a larger than average number of OTO members I've met over the years either chose to manifest their will to live what most would consider to be below average existences, that the idea of living a modestly comfortable and happy life wasn't their will, or if living a joyful life filled more with ease than struggle was their will, then something about their will and intent wasn't being manifested through Crowleys system. Maybe it's as simple as their will was to be as fucked up of a junkie drug addict as Crowley was? Of course since I'm making no definitive statements based on any kind of scientific study and only passing along my observations, your observations and mileage may differ. I have no problem with that if that's the case and have no need to try to disprove or discount your personal observations. Wrestling camps don't make claims saying "practice our system and you will go to the Olympics if that is your intent and will." Crowley did claim that by practicing magik you could impose your will and intent on the universe and manifest that which you desire. i agree. you never claimed that.. what im saying is the conclusion you posted is based on your experience with people and may not have been a large enough sample size to provide a robust predictor. and if thats the case then you dont have the statistical weight to make any conclusions based on your data set. im not sure of your understanding of statistics. i had several semesters and aced that shit. also, i think you missed my point.. you are assuming that Magik can directly increase a standard of living. .to make that assumption you would have to understand the very nature of Magik. do you? i dont. this casts serious doubt on your conclusions. you may be looking for results that the system simply cannot directly produce. the important word in the Crowley claim you posted is COULD.. do you have reason to suspect that the people you observed have what it takes to make the system manifest? if so why? sure they may have trained but that dont mean they are Olympic material, have what it takes to truly manifest the will. you nor I know what if anything Crowley did as far as summoning entities and manifesting will. perhaps Crowley's will/intent was lots of drugs and sex.. .if so he was a rousing success story dont you think? also, i dont think Crowley said everyone who wants to can be a successful magician. some are bound to fail.. perhaps the people you are associated with are the failures |
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Post by lordkundalini on Aug 17, 2016 12:41:11 GMT -7
my direct experience with magick is with as i said a successful man.. runs his own company.
a man who asked for change and had his house burn down shortly afterword. definite change
coincidence, perhaps if such a thing exists
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Post by PooDolla on Aug 17, 2016 12:43:04 GMT -7
it was coincidence.
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Post by Don Swifty on Aug 17, 2016 12:55:10 GMT -7
Had several statistics classes myself back in business school. So what.
I never claimed to make a statistically valid argument. I just stated my subjective opinion and the observations I based my opinion on . Your subjective opinion and observations may differ. I have zero problem with that, and as I said before, have no interest or reason to try to discount your opinion or personal observations.
At no point did I claim to make a statistically valid argument or state anything as conclusive fact, so pointing out that my observations aren't based on an adequate sample size is a moot point. Sorry, but I'm not at all interested in conducting a statistically valid study or researching to see if there was one that backs up my subjective opinion and what I've observed. If you want to go through the effort and post a link to independent results showing that statistically speaking I'm totally off base with my opinion that's cool. I might give it a glance and am perfectly open to changing my opinion from one based on my personal experiences and observations to an opinion based on whatever statistically valid studies you choose to post. I'm flexible like that.
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Post by Don Swifty on Aug 17, 2016 13:03:07 GMT -7
I never said anything about or made any conclusions or even assumptions that magik can increase a standard of living. My point was that it's odd that people who can supposedly use magik to assert their will to manifest their intent on the universe would not use that power to get themselves out of a job situation they don't like and frequently complain about, or more generally use magik to assert the will to live a life of ease (peace of mind) instead of one filled with turmoil. Unless of course they were completely successful in using Crowley's magik to assert their will to manifest their intent to be stuck in a crappy job, complain about their life, and live a turmoil filled life?
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Post by lordkundalini on Aug 17, 2016 13:19:29 GMT -7
Had several statistics classes myself back in business school. So what. I never claimed to make a statistically valid argument. I just stated my subjective opinion and the observations I based my opinion on . Your subjective opinion and observations may differ. I have zero problem with that, and as I said before, have no interest or reason to try to discount your opinion or personal observations. At no point did I claim to make a statistically valid argument or state anything as conclusive fact, so pointing out that my observations aren't based on an adequate sample size is a moot point. Sorry, but I'm not at all interested in conducting a statistically valid study or researching to see if there was one that backs up my subjective opinion and what I've observed. If you want to go through the effort and post a link to independent results showing that statistically speaking I'm totally off base with my opinion that's cool. I might give it a glance and am perfectly open to changing my opinion from one based on my personal experiences and observations to an opinion based on whatever statistically valid studies you choose to post. I'm flexible like that. i never said you claimed that.. im just pointing out that you have a data subset you are working with, a data set that may or may not be reflective of the set. if you dont have a robust predictor than any conclusions you draw may be flawed and totally not reflective of the set. just wanted to make sure you understood that. im not prepared to assume you did or did not. so then we are in agreement.. you dont really have a robust sample size to draw any broad conclusions on the validity of the Magik system. neither do I. mine happen to be positive, yours more negative it seems. so Magik may work or may not. but its fun to think about for me. and Crowley was very interesting and i dont feel being a drug addict rules out knowing truth lets end it here on a pleasant note.. thanks for the discussion. |
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Post by lordkundalini on Aug 22, 2016 10:33:42 GMT -7
www.evolveandascend.com/2016/08/17/kabbalahs-remarkable-idea/ been reading thru this today. One of the striking features in the Kabbalah’s account of the origin of evil is that, unlike the Biblical myth, whose notion of the Fall of Humanity is attributed to a human act as described in the Garden of Eden story, the Kabbalah sees the origin of evil as an inescapable feature of the very process of cosmogenesis itself. Instead of seeing evil as existing outside of God, the Kabbalists saw evil as an essential component of the deity, woven into the very fabric of creation. From the point of view of the Kabbalah, evil issues forth from God himself, originating in the very heart of divinity, and is a logically necessary consequence of the very act of creation itself. In the earliest Kabbalistic writings it says “The Holy One praised be He has a trait which is called Evil.”[iv] From the Kabbalah’s point of view, to deny evil its rightful place in the cosmos is to do away with the Good as well. When Freud was first introduced to the Kabbalah, he was so beside himself in excitement that he exclaimed “This is gold.” When Jung, who to my mind has the deepest insight into the nature of evil of anyone I have yet encountered, had his eyes opened to the profundity of the Kabbalah, he realized that his entire psychology had been anticipated by certain of their adepts. In an interview on his eightieth birthday in 1955, Jung declared, “the Hasidic Rabbi Baer from Mesiritz anticipated my entire psychology in the eighteenth century.”[vi] I can relate to how Jung must have felt, as the more I studied the Kabbalah’s cosmology, the more my mind was being blown, feeling as if I had found an alternative─and complementary─rendering of what I had written about in Dispelling Wetiko. The Kabbalah provides an ingenious model of how we have become entranced by the spell-binding powers of our own mind
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Post by lordkundalini on Aug 22, 2016 10:39:00 GMT -7
i like Jung lots.. seems to believe in entities
Jung writes, “In a tract of the Lurianic Kabbalah, the remarkable idea is developed that man is destined to become God’s helper in the attempt to restore the vessels which were broken when God thought to create a world.”[vii] Commenting on this novel idea, Jung writes, “Here the thought emerges for the first time that man must help God to repair the damage wrought by creation. For the first time man’s cosmic responsibility is acknowledged.”[viii] Jung was appreciating the Kabbalist’s (r)evolutionary insight that humanity was playing the crucial role of co-partnering with God so as to complete the creative act of his Incarnation. The radical and taboo thought was, “for the first time,” emerging into a monotheistic worldview that, to put it into religious language, humanity didn’t just depend upon God, but that God, as if to complete the circle, depended upon humanity as well. From the Kabbalah’s point of view, God did not just create humanity, but in a joint venture, humanity is reciprocally helping to create God as well – talk about a “cosmic responsibility!”
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Post by lordkundalini on Aug 22, 2016 11:13:39 GMT -7
fun concepts
The entire process of Tikkun proceeds out of what the Kabbalah refers to as “The Other Side” (called “The Sitra Achra,” a nether realm of evil inhabited by and composed of the kelipot), which is to say that, kabbalistically speaking, there is no liberated light except that which issues forth out of the evil realm. The Zohar, the key Kabbalistic text, makes this very point when it makes the remarkable statement, “There is no light except that which issues from darkness…and no true good except it proceed from evil.”[xv] According to the Kabbalah, evil is the very condition of good’s realization. Evil, at cross purposes to the good at its core, is at the same time, paradoxically, its very foundation. It is only by attending to the darkness within ourselves and making the darkness conscious, however, that we become secure in the attainment of the good and begin to wake up. Jung writes, “He who comprehends the darkness in himself, to him the light is near.”[xvi]
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Post by lordkundalini on Aug 24, 2016 6:14:06 GMT -7
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Post by lordkundalini on Aug 24, 2016 9:58:17 GMT -7
www.collective-evolution.com/2016/03/28/breatharianism-science-examines-people-who-claim-not-to-eat-heres-what-they-found/i love to read up on this kind of stuff.. seems the human potential may be limited by foucus on materialism During the first test, which took place in 2003, Jani was monitored 24/7 by hospital staff and video cameras, where it was confirmed that Jani neither ate nor drank. He also did not show any physiological changes which, according to modern day medicine, should be impossible. This test took place over a 10 day period. Although it might not seem like a significant amount of time, to go 10 days without food and water and not experience any physiological changes is actually quite astounding He was tested again at Sterling Hospital in 2010 from April 22nd to May 6th. This time, he was observed by thirty-five researchers from the Indian Defence Institute of Physiology and Allied Sciences, among other organizations. This time, Jani was observed to not eat or drink for two weeks. As with the previous test, he exhibited no deleterious effects from this abstention.
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Post by lordkundalini on Aug 24, 2016 10:45:43 GMT -7
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Post by lordkundalini on Sept 16, 2016 10:59:05 GMT -7
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Post by lordkundalini on Sept 19, 2016 12:03:34 GMT -7
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Post by lordkundalini on Sept 23, 2016 8:38:24 GMT -7
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