|
|
Post by danimal on Feb 13, 2024 14:29:11 GMT -7
There are a lot of opinions/statements in here that illustrate a complete lack of understanding about how strategic interests and alliances work. I know how alliances work. I also think throwing 400,000 Ukrainian body's in front of Russia is insane. And not going to work. In my opinion we could have eliminated Putin himself and strategically saved most of those lives and a shit ton of money. And 99% chance have a better outcome than we do now. The only alliance I see working is the one with the people building weapons. case and point. I honestly can't make heads or tails of anything you just said. |
|
|
|
Post by EddieBlake on Feb 13, 2024 14:49:58 GMT -7
I know how alliances work. I also think throwing 400,000 Ukrainian body's in front of Russia is insane. And not going to work. In my opinion we could have eliminated Putin himself and strategically saved most of those lives and a shit ton of money. And 99% chance have a better outcome than we do now. The only alliance I see working is the one with the people building weapons. case and point. I honestly can't make heads or tails of anything you just said. The IMF could do that, no problem. |
|
|
|
Post by bear on Feb 13, 2024 15:05:43 GMT -7
forcing democracy always works
|
|
|
|
Post by Don Swifty on Feb 13, 2024 15:10:34 GMT -7
I think when it comes to these complex topics like international alliances, trade agreements, immigration, economic policies, etc., there's really not many people who do have much of thorough understanding about how all those things actually work. Those that do aren't hanging out on jamband dr00g band forums. Most everyone gravitates toward a general side of an issue and relies on others (seemingly) more in the know to fill in the blanks, provide the details. So on the economy most are either on the tax the rich and have them pay for the majority of things since they benefit the most from the system, or tax the poor because the rich are the ones providing jobs so we should do everything we can to encourage them to make even more $ than they currently have.
Something happens, we rely on our already determined world view and favorite familiar 'experts' to guide our opinions, and then we go on social media to repeat or just forward those talking points. My problem has always been that I try to see as many sides as possible which makes it harder sometimes to formulate an opinion; so in the case of Ukraine I think it all depends on if you're thinking of the situation in terms of US strategic and commercial interests, in terms of the Ukrainian citizens who are dying defending their land, as a pacifist, being a reliable ally to our European allies, being an American first isolationist, etc. There are no truly objective right or wrong answers, only what makes the most sense to an individual.
Personally, I don't give a fuck about America maintaining its' dominating influence in global affairs and actually would prefer to see it diminished since America has a long history of imperialism and overall shitty foreign policy that has supported authoritarians over democracies when it's in supposedly in "America's best interest" to do so. It's not that I'm an "America First" MAGA type, I just don't care if America is #1 on the world stage or even a superpower. I'm aware that if it's not the US it'll be some other asshole country that fills the power vacuum because only those types of countries become super powers, but that's how it is. I don't expect some friendly little island in the S. Pacific to take charge and show us all the chill island way to peacefully co-exist. I don't own stock in the military industrial complex so I don't give a fuck about them and believe that any spending that currently goes toward manufacturing weapons could be better spent on just about anything else. I'm sure there are people who feel the opposite and that America needs to remain the globally involved active #1 superpower, needs to defend Ukraine and reap the benefit of boosting the economy at home by spending to manufacture the world's weapons. I get their point of view and am not saying they're wrong, just that they're looking at it all from a different point of view than my own with different priorities and beliefs on what America's role in global affairs should be.
|
|
|
|
Post by danimal on Feb 13, 2024 15:16:31 GMT -7
Damn that's a long way of saying I only understand my own perspective.
|
|
|
|
Post by Not your moms 🌮 on Feb 13, 2024 15:19:39 GMT -7
I know how alliances work. I also think throwing 400,000 Ukrainian body's in front of Russia is insane. And not going to work. In my opinion we could have eliminated Putin himself and strategically saved most of those lives and a shit ton of money. And 99% chance have a better outcome than we do now. The only alliance I see working is the one with the people building weapons. case and point. I honestly can't make heads or tails of anything you just said. I'm saying we could have blown putin off the map and saved lives and money. |
|
|
|
Post by Don Swifty on Feb 13, 2024 15:21:21 GMT -7
There are a lot of opinions/statements in here that illustrate a complete lack of understanding about how strategic interests and alliances work. I know how alliances work. I also think throwing 400,000 Ukrainian body's in front of Russia is insane. And not going to work. In my opinion we could have eliminated Putin himself and strategically saved most of those lives and a shit ton of money. And 99% chance have a better outcome than we do now. The only alliance I see working is the one with the people building weapons. If Taylor Swift is as powerful as people suggest why haven't they used her in a psyop to take out Putin? She could meet anyone in the world she wants. If she can do all those choregraphed dance moves a pop star has to do she can be taught all sorts of Black Widow like moves. Put some cyanide or other toxin in that red lipstick and she can kill anyone with a nice-to-meet you greeting kiss. Maybe the weapons manufactures are paying off whoever needs to be paid to keep Putin in play instead of making him a target. Putin's good for business. |
|
|
|
Post by danimal on Feb 13, 2024 15:23:45 GMT -7
Like I said before...
|
|
|
|
Post by EddieBlake on Feb 13, 2024 15:24:27 GMT -7
case and point. I honestly can't make heads or tails of anything you just said. I'm saying we could have blown putin off the map and saved lives and money. How are we going to do that and not cause WWIII? That's seriously some Mission Impossible shit. |
|
|
|
Post by ancientchad on Feb 13, 2024 16:01:10 GMT -7
"Those that do aren't hanging out on jamband dr00g band forums."
Yes but don't forget that we have all figured all of this shit out while tripping balls.
Don't discount that. We "know" shit.
|
|
|
|
Post by danimal on Feb 13, 2024 16:08:32 GMT -7
Dismissive bullshit.
|
|
|
|
Post by Don Swifty on Feb 13, 2024 16:45:14 GMT -7
Damn that's a long way of saying I only understand my own perspective. It's just a detailed way of saying I try to understand as many perspectives as possible and think anyone who clings too tightly to the idea that theirs is the only perspective that matters are like intolerant religious absolutists, the types who lack the ability to truly understand complex issues. I wasn't suggesting that you're one of those types and I wasn't commenting about your understanding at all if that's what you meant by '"I" (referring to yourself) only understand...."' If it wasn't clear, I was commenting on people in general and not you specifically. I wouldn't say anyone here has a complete lack of understanding about Ukraine/Israel/Palestine or just about any other topic discussed. I'm pretty confident everyone here, no matter their opinion, is intelligent enough to understand there're a lot of ins, a lot of outs, and a lot of what have yous - even if we don't fully understand the specific nuances themselves. |
|
|
|
Post by danimal on Feb 13, 2024 16:59:41 GMT -7
And I'm saying in a simplified way that you are absolutely and objectively fucking wrong.
|
|
|
|
Post by Don Swifty on Feb 13, 2024 17:37:53 GMT -7
And I'm saying in a simplified way that you are absolutely and objectively fucking wrong. I don't know exactly what you're referring to that you think I'm absolutely and objectively fucking wrong about, but that's perfectly okay with me because I don't think I'm absolutely and/or objectively right about anything beyond the obvious like which directions the sun rises and sets. Whatever it is, I'll take it as a difference in subjective opinions which is kind of my whole point, but if believing complex issues which involve many different sides (like Israel/Palestine or US involvement re: Ukraine) are best considered to be subjective is what you think I'm wrong about I'll just agree to disagree and leave it at that. I'm the type who'd be disappointed in myself if at least one person doesn't think I'm absolutely and objectively fucking wrong about something (or everything). |
|
|
|
Post by Not your moms 🌮 on Feb 13, 2024 18:40:46 GMT -7
I'm saying we could have blown putin off the map and saved lives and money. How are we going to do that and not cause WWIII? That's seriously some Mission Impossible shit. How is what we are doing now not causing WWIII? We could have filled Tucker Carlson full of explosives and made him actually useful. |
|
|
|
Post by danimal on Feb 13, 2024 18:51:42 GMT -7
Personally, I don't give a fuck about America maintaining its' dominating influence in global affairs
Right here. This is where you are wrong.
|
|
|
|
Post by Not your moms 🌮 on Feb 13, 2024 18:58:11 GMT -7
Personally, I don't give a fuck about America maintaining its' dominating influence in global affairs Right here. This is where you are wrong. I agree completely. But if we are going to be involved I think it should be short and to the point. Throwing half a million body's in front of it is evil as far as I'm concerned. |
|
|
|
Post by EddieBlake on Feb 13, 2024 19:00:11 GMT -7
How are we going to do that and not cause WWIII? That's seriously some Mission Impossible shit. How is what we are doing now not causing WWIII? We could have filled Tucker Carlson full of explosives and made him actually useful. Looney Toons ass assassination plots aren't gonna work my man. |
|
|
|
Post by Not your moms 🌮 on Feb 13, 2024 19:04:41 GMT -7
How is what we are doing now not causing WWIII? We could have filled Tucker Carlson full of explosives and made him actually useful. Looney Toons ass assassination plots aren't gonna work my man. That was a joke. The assassination plot would have to be way better planned. I do not think impossible though. |
|
|
|
Post by Don Swifty on Feb 13, 2024 21:25:47 GMT -7
Personally, I don't give a fuck about America maintaining its' dominating influence in global affairs Right here. This is where you are wrong. A good chunk of the world outside of the US and Europe doesn't really give a fuck about America maintaining its dominating influence in global affairs - esp. people in countries (if not the current govts themselves) who've had bad experiences with the CIA and State Dept. toppling their democratically elected governments or otherwise involving themselves in their internal affairs. The kind of countries (or person like Bernie Sanders) who agree with the sentiment that Henry Kissinger was a war criminal. Latin America, Middle East, Asia, Africa - lot of places in the world where America isn't considered a benign superpower. And if Trump wins expect some of those European countries to start not giving a fuck about US dominance either. If I'm wrong then it sounds like you're suggesting that all of those people in all those countries in all those regions are wrong as well - which may be the case from a strictly American point of view that doesn't value the opinions of the rest of the world or if one believes that America is always right. Lot of countries are perfectly willing to align with China over the US as their primary overseas trading partner. There are countries who 've felt abandoned by the US where China has stepped in to develop their countries infrastructure. Obviously China does it for their own benefit (like the US did and still does when it's in its interest to do so) but why expect somebody in any of the 151 countries who participate in and benefit from China's Belt and Road Initiative to give a fuck about America maintaining its dominating influence in global affairs? I've talked with people who consider the choice between primarily aligning economically with China or the US the way some in the US look at the choice between presidential candidates - a choice between the lesser of two evils, but where unlike the US China doesn't have a history of instigating coups and supporting military dictators in their region. I guess they're all wrong as well? Why do you consider it wrong for people who oppose American foreign policy, past and present, to not give a fuck about the US maintaining their dominance in global affairs, esp. people who don't live in America? Not everyone views the US as having a benign foreign policy or thinks it's fan-fucking-tastic that the US maintains military bases all over the world. Look at all the current hand wringing and dissatisfaction inside the US itself over its support of Israel and it's military actions at the expense of Palestinian civilians that could wind up costing Biden the election if those former 2020 supporters decide not to turn out for him in certain swing states. I'm guessing a lot of them don't give a fuck about a continuing US global dominance either. No offense, but your subjective opinion on my subjective opinion makes as much sense to me as an Argentine saying an American is wrong for not giving a fuck about Argentina maintaining its global dominance in futbol. If you disagree with my subjective opinion and more objective observations and still think I'm completely and objectively fucking wrong then I'll wear that badge proudly as someone not in favor of US foreign policy and all the turmoil and wars it has started, caused, or contributed to throughout its history and have no problem watching the US empire's influence inevitably decline and eventually fall like all the other empires in history that came before. Thinking change is wrong when it's in fact inevitable doesn't make sense to me. |
|
